Curse

Mav · May 25, 2005, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chroniss

Its an invitation for scammers to allow Casinos, I really dont see how your arguement holds any merit, especially the part about /flex...you cant scam someone with a /flex now can you.

No, you can't scam someone with /flex

My analogy using /flex was geared towards the guy saying ArenaNet created the game and run it's servers, as such they can change or add to their game or terms of service as they see fit, which is correct.

So it's not that far of a stretch that someone, may find such things as /flex or whatnot harassment of some kind. Sure its an exaggeration but hey, people got very worked up over /roll obviously.

Hintshigen Elgin · May 25, 2005, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav

No, you can't scam someone with /flex

My analogy using /flex was geared towards the guy saying ArenaNet created the game and run it's servers, as such they can change or add to their game or terms of service as they see fit, which is correct.

So it's not that far of a stretch that someone, may find such things as /flex or whatnot harassment of some kind. Sure its an exaggeration but hey, people got very worked up over /roll obviously.

They didn't get worked up over /roll. You act like they're taking it out of the game. They got worked up with the way /roll was being used to potentially scam people.

thaumaturge · May 25, 2005, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Good move I say, jolly well done all round chaps.

Slade xTekno · May 25, 2005, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav

I'm sorry, I didn't know Darwin's teachings meant not having class.

If people can't handle someone (read, not me, I ain't that stupid) swindling them out of fake game currency, in a fantasy game that in no way affects your real life, then those people have the problem, not anyone else.

"The kid who ate too many marbles, didn't grow up to have kids of his own!" - George Carlin

Social evolution demands a certain amount of guile in surviving, and although it's only a game, it happens. Plus, just because it's "fake game currency" doesn't stop people from complaining about it or people from not keeping their word.

If survival of the fittest has finished running its course and the world were filled with perfect people, it would be ok. However, it hasn't.

Adaria · May 25, 2005, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Edit - Part II: Actually, nevermind to all of it.

Let me just say, or qoute from the Guild Wars Website

Guild Wars Rules of Conduct

1. While playing Guild Wars, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.

5. When communicating in Guild Wars using Global Chat (including, without limitation, server wide chat and use of the whisper command), you may not spam, flood, or make duplicate posts. [For more information, please see the User Agreement section 4 (j).
]

(j) In Guild Wars, characters have the privilege of sending server wide messages called 'Chat Messages.' With this privilege comes a high level of responsibility on the part of the user. Due to the fact that this communication channel has the ability to impact every player on the server, NC Interactive will not tolerate any inappropriate behavior of any sort in this chat channel. This includes but is not limited to: inappropriate language of any sort or any attempt to escape the profanity filter, inappropriate or vulgar content of any sort, repeated 'spamming,' or 'flooding' of the chat messages channel, or any other conduct determined to be inappropriate by NC Interactive Support, in its sole discretion. Any violation of this term or rules of conduct may, in the sole discretion of NC Interactive, lead to the temporary removal of the character’s ability to communicate, the account being suspended for a set period of time, or lead to permanent account closure.

Ahem, I do believe this shows WHY exactly Casino's are being banned. My last point for this thread for the night...

Trenchsoul · May 25, 2005, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav

I'm sorry, I didn't know Darwin's teachings meant not having class.

If people can't handle someone (read, not me, I ain't that stupid) swindling them out of fake game currency, in a fantasy game that in no way affects your real life, then those people have the problem, not anyone else.

"The kid who ate too many marbles, didn't grow up to have kids of his own!" - George Carlin

Why do you ceaselessly defend scamming? It's the principle of it, it doesn't matter if what was stolen was of value or not. If they can prevent theivery by banning casinos then they should. I'm all for improving game play for all sorts of people.

Mav · May 25, 2005, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hintshigen Elgin

They didn't get worked up over /roll. You act like they're taking it out of the game. They got worked up with the way /roll was being used to potentially scam people.

Well, same thing basically.

How long till someone uses /roll for a more, legitmate, purpose and then someone screams hacks/cheats/scams for it? Eliminated casinos just is a stop gap way to cut down on spam, which should have been cut down on several patches ago with a more precise anti spam filter (as proven in other threads the anti spam filter is a joke as is the ignore system).

Mav · May 25, 2005, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trenchsoul

Why do you ceaselessly defend scamming? It's the principle of it, it doesn't matter if what was stolen was of value or not. If they can prevent theivery by banning casinos then they should. I'm all for improving game play for all sorts of people.

Because unlike some, I don't simply don't give in when told what freedoms a player does and does not have. Now of course that doesn't always work out, cause theres just universal rules to follow (no racism, no religious hate etc) but in the scope of the game and how you can use a function (/roll) it's silly that the best way for the company to fix something they let players use, is to ban players for using it in a particular manner.

That and I also believe in stupid people should not breed. I've played online games since my days of Quake 2 and Starcraft, and moved onto various games since then. And by god, if I had .000000000000000000000000000000001 cents every time someone was scammed in an online RPG of some fashion, I'd be the richest guy in the universe. It's people that fall for these scams that are the same kids that think it's ok to taste dishwashing detergant or attempt backyard wrestling. Why should everyone be punished cause they can't grow a few brain cells and realize "hmm if I hand this guy 5 plat, he'll probably just run off with it"

Adaria · May 25, 2005, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Refer to my edited post for my points on why casinos are being banned and why this is a good thing and how ArenaNet is not being hypocritical as someone has stated in this.

Thank You.

~Adaria

Navaros · May 25, 2005, 05:28 AM // 05:28

GOOD RIDDANCE to endless casino spam! hip hip HOORAH!

Jackell · May 25, 2005, 05:31 AM // 05:31

It's the use that's being banned, not the dice themselves. It's not hypocritcal. It's the same as in RL. Cards are legal, but 3 card monte on a sidewalk isn't. Is the government hypocritical for allowing people to own cards but not allowing gambling?

BlaineTog · May 25, 2005, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav

How long till someone uses /roll for a more, legitmate, purpose and then someone screams hacks/cheats/scams for it?

Slippery slope fallacy.

Immortal Flame · May 25, 2005, 05:41 AM // 05:41

So....what can we do with the dice now...suggestions anyone?

Onimusha Greenwood · May 25, 2005, 05:47 AM // 05:47

just dont gamble.it gets addicting.but we dont gotta worry bout it anymore so i think its all good.no?

Redfang · May 25, 2005, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Let me just say "woooooot!"

Adios, scammers and spammers.

aeroclown · May 25, 2005, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Theres a right way and a wrong way to use things. There never would have been a problem if players weren't scamming other players.

Peroid. Any argument that Company XYZ is wrong for stopping Scammers is well just plain stupid. The only people that would really complain would be the people who have something to lose.

Gaile Gray · May 25, 2005, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Perhaps it will help the concerned or confused amongst us if I point out that the /roll command was a carryover from back in the day when we did not have automatic distribution (tagging) of dropped items. There is a certain staff member at ArenaNet who developed the amazing ability to nab items before they hit the ground. Without the reservation system, those of us playing less frenetically, or those of us (like me) playing the ranged classes would be left out of nearly all loot drops.

So, the designers added /roll so that we could, civilly and with composure, sort out to whom the item should be given. And it worked very well indeed. When we added the automatic drop reservation system, the /roll remained. I think it was a nice thing to have if, for instance, you were playing Warrior and a wand dropped and two people said "I'd like that wand." You'd type /roll and the number of the party member that came up would be the recipient of the item. No hurt feelings, no tough decisions.

I certainly didn't anticipate that we'd see the proliferation of in-game casinos. And when I saw them, I didn't imagine that so many would be rife with scams and other harmful influences. Now that the potential for (and, sadly, the actuality of) abuse is more clear, we have acted in the interests of the community in closing the casinos.

We may consider offering an NPC or other in-game system for gambling. Would that make us hypocritical? Of course not! Closing casinos wasn't a statement on casinos or gambling. It was a statement made and a promise kept to maintain a game world free of abuse and the exploitation of other players, to the best of our ability. If a gambling option is added to Guild Wars, it will offer a fair system from which exploitation is precluded. The decision on that is up to the designers, of course, with our thanks for the valuable suggestions and the valid reports offered on this whole subject.

Lim-Dul · May 25, 2005, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Hmmm - another thing I'd love to see being fought against somehow are the real-money auctions on eBay and stuff.
Not only is this totally asocial behaviour, but also is this completely illegal as you are not allowed to make money of a game that is actually owned by ArenaNet (correct me if I'm wrong).
Maybe someone should scan the auctions on eBay from time to time and lock the accounts of people who trade there? I mean - there aren't TOO many people who do that. It'd be quite easy to track them down.

At the same time I find the concept of VIRTUAL money auctions like http://www.rpgtraders.net really, REALLY nice.

Update: Yeah - now I've read the End User License Agreement and are absolutely SURE that selling in-game items for real money is a breach of ANet's copyright.

e.g.

Quote:

(c) Rights to Use Accounts. By agreeing to the User Agreement you agree that you do not own either the Master Account or Game Account (collectively, the "Account") you use to access the service, the characters created on the Account and that NC Interactive stores on NC Interactive servers, the items stored on these servers, or any other data from which the servers and accounts are comprised. The Account you create is needed to login to the service as per section 4(b) and the fee that you pay is to access new Chapters.

Quote:

(b) Rights in Content. You acknowledge that NC Interactive and its related Game Content Providers have rights in their respective Game Content under copyright and other applicable laws, and that you accept full responsibility and liability for your use of any Game Content in violation of any such rights. NC Interactive and its related Game Content Providers grant to Members the right to use the Game Content for noncommercial, personal purposes, including in connection with creating noncommercial fan fiction or fan web sites regarding the same. However, you acknowledge and agree that you shall not reproduce, prepare derivative works based upon, distribute, publicly perform, or transmit any Game Content for commercial uses without first obtaining the express written consent of NC Interactive.

So the people on eBay are not only poor freaks, but also criminals. :-P

P.S. Just so you see the vastness of the problem:

http://search.ebay.com/guild-wars

After you reach lvl. 20 and gain access to all those high-leavel areas you can make around 100$ a day just for selling the drops! If this isn't commercial and at the same time criminal activity, then I don't know what it is. How can you SELL things that actually don't BELONG to you? (just read the quoted parts of the agreement)

Mav · May 25, 2005, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeroclown

Theres a right way and a wrong way to use things. There never would have been a problem if players weren't scamming other players.

Peroid. Any argument that Company XYZ is wrong for stopping Scammers is well just plain stupid. The only people that would really complain would be the people who have something to lose.

Well I'm or so discussing it rather than complaining, but I have nothing to lose. I've never ran a casino in GW, never spent money in one, never had any association with any. I just simply think its silly what their doing based apon my previous reasons.

Lim-Dul · May 25, 2005, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Just think of how many requirements you have to fulfill to run a casino in the real world - including a permission from the authorities. Similarly running a casino in GW shouldn't be done without the company's knowledge - even if it's virtual money ANet still are the AUTHORITY in the GW world and can set up laws as they please. :-P

By analogy: knives aren't forbidden, nor the manifacturing of knives, yet murder by using a knife is forbidden. Mamma mia! Can't you see a certain rule here?